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What The Heck Happend Here?
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TheInsomniac85



Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: What The Heck Happend Here? Reply with quote

Seriously. I've been gone for a while. About a year and a half or so. Nothing personal. I just lost interest for a while and had other things going on. All I comeback to see though is immaturity and hostility towards one another. Where did we go wrong?

I don't know what the whole situation is. As far as someone lending a camera to someone and it broke. They didn't pay for it etc. So I'm not going to comment on that. That is there business and is between them and only them. It's also no excuse for why people are treating each other the way they are here either.

Some of the things I've been reading here are crazy. Apparently I shouldn't be allowed to post here, because I haven't made a fan film. Last time I checked there was a help forum, general discussions forum, and non-film related forum. I have every right to be here. Who are you to tell me otherwise?

Apparently, if I make a fan-film. I have Steven Spielberg, Chris Nolan, and James Cameron here to tell me how much it sucks. Just remember critics. Most here are not professional filmmakers. So get over yourself. This is a Batman fan-film forum. Which is populated by mostly younger people. With little, some, to no experience in filmmaking. I give them all the credit in the world regardless the quality of the film. For having the will, drive, and determination to make and finish a film in the first place. Deserves that much.

When I dropped in here the other day. I wondered, why are the boards dead? Where are the friends I made here? Simply, it doesn't look like a fun place to be anymore. This used to be and should be a place to talk and share your love for Batman and filmmaking. Help and offer advise to other's in need. Use constructive criticism.

Remember not everyone here is an aspiring filmmaker. Some just want to put there favorite superhero on screen. TO ENTERTAIN YOU. We should all be thank full for that . Because without these people you wouldn't have this forum or fan-films. Let's all try to get along, leave the ego's at the door, and make this a great place to be again. Peace.

Regards,
Cliff


Last edited by TheInsomniac85 on Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:32 am; edited 8 times in total
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ChristonaBike



Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 3605
Location: Coventry, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i still enjoy posting here and i figure the best thing to do is to keep out of immature threads. I post here about my new film and get feedback but thats about it. I think the forum is still as good as before and if you had posted here without simply pointing out all of the forums flaws i would have welcomed you back. If you hate it so much why return?
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Dick killed Bruce



Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 489

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Cliff.

Some of us ARE professionals... but no we're not Spielberg. Still, some of us actually make a living making films or doing commercial work. Because we're not the biggest directors in the world doesn't mean we're not REAL filmmakers. We work with real equipment, real crews, and even some (gasp) big names. I don't think we're all stuck at being 17 with mom's camera and our living room as the batcave.

These boards were always immature, they just weren't nearly as offensive. Most of the people who noticed the immaturity simply stayed quiet about it. There were so many times I'd read a thread worshipping something Batman related that was probably only mediocre and I'd sigh and move on. Simply because something has Batman in it makes it great around here (or used to).

There ARE egos on these forums, I'm guilty of having one myself I admit, but there always were. Notarile, Sabloff, and myself were probably the loudest when it comes to arguing or debating certain things... but maybe it's not just egos... maybe it's a real drive to GET BETTER. You won't get better if everybody tells you "good job" after every single thing you do. I honestly don't think that Smiegel (name?) is a good Joker at all. Still, BFF is praising the hell out of it. No offense Mr. Smiegel, just using an example.

If you think it just became mean around here, go back and read some old threads. Imagine if Adam West, Kevin Smith, or George Clooney were members of the forums. They'd be crying and saying everybody was mean and they'd be whining that people who weren't filmmakers shouldn't be allowed to criticize them. It's always been harsh... it's just slowly being turned on one another... which, depending on one's maturity and ability to take criticism, might not be a bad thing.

This DEFINITELY feels like a forum for a group of friends who like Batman. Most people will spot "bad lighting" but can't tell you what the four different kinds of lighting are. Still, they're giving each other advice and possibly damaging each other's skills. Most people will complain about too much camera movement but the film will use the "zoom" mechanic and nobody will say anything because they don't know or understand why that's bad. There is a LOT to learn about being a serious filmmaker and I agree that this is not the place to do so. We have to educate ourselves before we can help educate each other. It's ignorance to sit back and give advice when you know less than the person you're giving it to. It's immaturity to be offended by what I just said because at times are are ALL the lesser knowing individual and we must all know when to be quiet and try to learn.

I titled our film "The Greatest Fan Film of All Time" because I wanted a war. That's the truth. I hoped it would make people say "yeah, right, I'll make a better one!"... not send me messages telling me how rude my title is or whining about how I have no right. It's a fan film people. It doesn't mean ANYTHING. That competetive do-it-yourself fire is dwindling in the fan film world. I talked to John Fiorella (Grayson) and he told me that for different reasons he'd never do another fan film. I understand that now because no matter how big his film got it was still extremely limited as to what he could do with it. Still, at least he did something worthwhile and didn't go around policing the internet and arguing with anybody who knocked or criticized it. That's what BFF does. Most people think that simply making a film qualifies you for an award around here, or making your own costumes makes you the best costume maker, or having a famous face means you have the best acting, etc. Bull.

99.99% of fan films suck. I'm sorry, I honestly don't mean to be cruel, I like you all, but it's the truth. I had to realize how bad I sucked a few years ago before I could get better. BFF is in a transition period right now where some are growing wiser and some are growing bitter. It will be interesting to see who "mans up" and starts pumping out some great work someday... but the unfortunate truth is that the great majority will not.
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Ace of Knaves



Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 232
Location: Arkham Asylum

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why so much heat on these forums as of late? Confused

I joined a while back, and vanished for a good year because of career reasons. I assume many people are gone because of similar real life situations.
Though I would imagine some, yes, left because of the fighting, immaturity, and/or insults. Although there isn't a single board on the entire internet where you won't find the very same offenses.

I usually vary my comments on fan films based on age, talent, and future goals. If it's someone that's serious about filmmaking, and wants helpful critiques? I'm harsh, but constructive.
If it's someone that's just wanting to make a quick movie with their friends because they love Batman? The curve is a little looser.

I do agree with one thing Cliff said. Any fan film that has been completed deserves that recognition. Most of them aren't...so those that do should be praised for that if nothing else.

Whatever your reasons for coming to this board, there are still good people here. Regardless of age, interests, films, or anything else.

If upsetting members can drive you away from this forum, then they'll drive you away from any forum.


~HoH~
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TheInsomniac85



Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gallagher Productions wrote:
i still enjoy posting here and i figure the best thing to do is to keep out of immature threads. I post here about my new film and get feedback but thats about it. I think the forum is still as good as before and if you had posted here without simply pointing out all of the forums flaws i would have welcomed you back. If you hate it so much why return?


There would be no point in pointing out the good. As that is not the subject of this discussion. I started this thread to discuss the flaws and how we can improve upon them. Maybe that's by following the the example of the good threads in these forums.

I never said I hated being here. My thread ended with, "Let's all try to get along, leave the ego's at the door, and make this a fun place to be again." So I don't understand your question. My thread wasn't meant to be negative. Stern maybe, but not negative.
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ChristonaBike



Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 3605
Location: Coventry, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dick killed Bruce wrote:

99.99% of fan films suck. I'm sorry, I honestly don't mean to be cruel, I like you all, but it's the truth. I had to realize how bad I sucked a few years ago before I could get better. BFF is in a transition period right now where some are growing wiser and some are growing bitter. It will be interesting to see who "mans up" and starts pumping out some great work someday... but the unfortunate truth is that the great majority will not.



i agree completely. I know that if i made a batman fan film right now it would suck. thats why i havent tried a new one. Sure i will help write a few on occasion but i try to stick to what i can get the best results out of.
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Dick killed Bruce



Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 489

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HarlequinOfHate wrote:

If it's someone that's just wanting to make a quick movie with their friends because they love Batman? The curve is a little looser.



I agree with this.
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TheInsomniac85



Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Some of us ARE professionals... but no we're not Spielberg. Still, some of us actually make a living making films or doing commercial work. Because we're not the biggest directors in the world doesn't mean we're not REAL filmmakers. We work with real equipment, real crews, and even some (gasp) big names. I don't think we're all stuck at being 17 with mom's camera and our living room as the batcave.


Ah, I love how typing makes for so many mis communications. I meant for the ones whom aren't giving constructive criticism and just bashing. They need to stop acting like there the big shot's. Some things are being taken far to seriously.

Quote:
but maybe it's not just egos... maybe it's a real drive to GET BETTER. You won't get better if everybody tells you "good job" after every single thing you do.


I agree. Constructive criticism even harsh is necessary. Otherwise it's hard to improve. I also agree theres nothing wrong with having an ego. It can keep you motivated to get better and improve. But I want to point out the ones who act like they are the know all god's of everything filmmaking. Tearing apart other peoples films doesn't make you any better than them. Those are the ones who need to check there ego at the door.

Quote:
If you think it just became mean around here, go back and read some old threads.


I don't know when it started getting real mean around here. Which is why I asked. There was always harsh criticism and ego's. But things have definitely changed since I was here last. For better or worse.

You have a lot of great points Dick Killed Bruce. Thanks for sharing. It can only help.


Last edited by TheInsomniac85 on Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ace of Knaves



Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 232
Location: Arkham Asylum

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheInsomniac85 wrote:
Quote:
Some of us ARE professionals... but no we're not Spielberg. Still, some of us actually make a living making films or doing commercial work. Because we're not the biggest directors in the world doesn't mean we're not REAL filmmakers. We work with real equipment, real crews, and even some (gasp) big names. I don't think we're all stuck at being 17 with mom's camera and our living room as the batcave.


Ah, I love how typing makes for so many mis communications. I meant for the ones whom aren't giving constructive criticism and just bashing. Need to stop acting like there the big shot's. Some things are being taken far to seriously.

Quote:
but maybe it's not just egos... maybe it's a real drive to GET BETTER. You won't get better if everybody tells you "good job" after every single thing you do.


I agree. Constructive criticism even harsh is necessary. Otherwise it's hard to improve. I was just pointing out the people who act like they are the know all god's of everything filmmaking. Tearing apart peoples films. Those are the ones who need to check there ego at the door.

Quote:
If you think it just became mean around here, go back and read some old threads.


I don't know if just got mean around here recently or not. Which is why I asked. Because I haven't been around here for almost 2 years. Nothing personal. Just pursuing other interests. Just making a point that times had changed since I was here last. For better or worse.

You have some great points Dick Killed Bruce. Thanks for sharing. It can only help.



But if their constructive criticism requires taking their films apart to a degree, should someone refrain from doing so because someone else thinks it makes them sound egocentric?

If someone is saying - "Your film is horrible next to mine. Take some pointers from MY film.", or just flatly, "You suck." - then I completely agree. That's ridiculous, and that person should be shot. Razz

But if someone's saying, - "This is what's not good for me, and here's why...", should they censor their words because they sound like a critic?

If anything, I would rather someone picks apart my films than lies to me about them.
Because I want to continue to make films, and keep at it as a profession...I want people to give it to me straight so that I can improve. Maybe even make it better next time.

Perhaps I'm wrong to assume that others with the same goals as myself would like the same thing from me. Confused


~HoH~
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TheInsomniac85



Joined: 20 Mar 2008
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But if their constructive criticism requires taking their films apart to a degree, should someone refrain from doing so because someone else thinks it makes them sound egocentric?


That's not being egocentric. That's one way of critiquing a film. Now, to tear someones film apart. That can be egocentric and unnecessary.

Quote:
If someone is saying - "Your film is horrible next to mine. Take some pointers from MY film.", or just flatly, "You suck." - then I completely agree. That's ridiculous, and that person should be shot.


Laughing

Quote:
But if someone's saying, - "This is what's not good for me, and here's why...", should they censor their words because they sound like a critic?


In my opinion no. That's constructive criticism.

Quote:
If anything, I would rather someone picks apart my films than lies to me about them.
Because I want to continue to make films, and keep at it as a profession...I want people to give it to me straight so that I can improve. Maybe even make it better next time.


Exactly.

Quote:
Perhaps I'm wrong to assume that others with the same goals as myself would like the same thing from me.


I'm sure other's including myself would want the same in return.
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MarkOne



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 722
Location: Novi, MI

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it's sad how some of the threads have gotten here. I see a few, which I won't mention or waste my time talking, and just shake my head. This used to be a good place to hang out, talk about movies and stuff like that. Nowadays, it's just whining and nit picking and having people say who should belong and who shouldn't.

And it's wrong.

But I'll tell you one thing.

I'm not leaving this forum.

Why?

First and foremost, I love Batman. Always have and always will. And last I checked, that is the first name of this forum.

Second, I'm a fan. Now, I'm no filmmaker. Never said I was. But I'm learning. Slowly and surely. Because I have a story I want to tell. A movie I want to do. And I'm going to do it. And I don't care if someone says it sucks or not. I'm going to get it done. No matter what.

Another reason I like this forum. Which is probably the most important, is the friends I've made here. Eric, Will, Bio, Vic, Waveride, PlusOne, Thomas, JLA, STE, Dick Killed Bruce, and others who I've met over the years have become good friends, both here and away from this forum. And I wouldn't trade that for anything.

So that's why I keep coming here and will continue to come here. I'm slowly putting together my own movie and maybe one day, I'll do a fan film. But I'm an original kind of guy and want to do my own original work.

But I will say this again. I'm not leaving this place. I'm not leaving this forum.

I like it here. I still do, in spite of what's been happening here lately.

Hopefully one day, it'll get back to being a likeable place again.
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MarkOne



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 722
Location: Novi, MI

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it's sad how some of the threads have gotten here. I see a few, which I won't mention or waste my time talking, and just shake my head. This used to be a good place to hang out, talk about movies and stuff like that. Nowadays, it's just whining and nit picking and having people say who should belong and who shouldn't.

And it's wrong.

But I'll tell you one thing.

I'm not leaving this forum.

Why?

First and foremost, I love Batman. Always have and always will. And last I checked, that is the first name of this forum.

Second, I'm a fan. Now, I'm no filmmaker. Never said I was. But I'm learning. Slowly and surely. Because I have a story I want to tell. A movie I want to do. And I'm going to do it. And I don't care if someone says it sucks or not. I'm going to get it done. No matter what.

Another reason I like this forum. Which is probably the most important, is the friends I've made here. Eric, Will, Bio, Vic, Waveride, PlusOne, Thomas, JLA, STE, Dick Killed Bruce, and others who I've met over the years have become good friends, both here and away from this forum. And I wouldn't trade that for anything.

So that's why I keep coming here and will continue to come here. I'm slowly putting together my own movie and maybe one day, I'll do a fan film. But I'm an original kind of guy and want to do my own original work.

But I will say this again. I'm not leaving this place. I'm not leaving this forum.

I like it here. I still do, in spite of what's been happening here lately.

Hopefully one day, it'll get back to being a likeable place again.
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SaveTheempireProductions



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes it's sad how some of the threads have gotten here. I see a few, which I won't mention or waste my time talking, and just shake my head. This used to be a good place to hang out, talk about movies and stuff like that. Nowadays, it's just whining and nit picking and having people say who should belong and who shouldn't.

And it's wrong.

But I'll tell you one thing.

I'm not leaving this forum.

Why?

First and foremost, I love Batman. Always have and always will. And last I checked, that is the first name of this forum.

Second, I'm a fan. Now, I'm no filmmaker. Never said I was. But I'm learning. Slowly and surely. Because I have a story I want to tell. A movie I want to do. And I'm going to do it. And I don't care if someone says it sucks or not. I'm going to get it done. No matter what.

Another reason I like this forum. Which is probably the most important, is the friends I've made here. Eric, Will, Bio, Vic, Waveride, PlusOne, Thomas, JLA, STE, Dick Killed Bruce, and others who I've met over the years have become good friends, both here and away from this forum. And I wouldn't trade that for anything.

So that's why I keep coming here and will continue to come here. I'm slowly putting together my own movie and maybe one day, I'll do a fan film. But I'm an original kind of guy and want to do my own original work.

But I will say this again. I'm not leaving this place. I'm not leaving this forum.

I like it here. I still do, in spite of what's been happening here lately.

Hopefully one day, it'll get back to being a likeable place again.


Amen.
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Dick killed Bruce



Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 489

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not all of what's happening here is a bad thing. It's change. People are starting to have much more in depth and intelligent conversations about maturity, quality, and experience than they would have 2 years ago. It's not any meaner or more cruel than it was before, it's just becoming more open and honest. That's called growing up.
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xSandmaNx



Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 728

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really can't call any of you as my friend, sorry. I tried to, but I've come to conclusion that I don't have friends here. I don't hate you, and I hope that no one hates me, but that doesn't make us friends. But not having friends here is the problem with me. Friendships makes people un-professional. When I posted my finished films, hardly no one replied. No one gave critism, they just said that it reminded Tim Burton's early work. That doesn't help me. I asked for critism, still I didn'tget it. Like I said, I hardly got anything. But then some kid, whose films arent even that great, tells about their next film idea, and everybodys around them. Maybe I should have tried to get friends, maybe my films had got more comments. (I know, that was selfish.)

Also, I came to this board as Batman fan, but lately, here has not been much about Batman. It's not that there haven't been happening anything around Bats,nobody just posts them here. And that's wrong.

What I wanted to say, was I don't consider anyone of youmy friend, and for Batman fan forum, here's very little about Batman.

I like to use the chat morethan the forums. You all should try.
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